On MSNBC, Angelo Carusone explains how Trump is “trying to send as much of a message as you possibly can” by suing the Wall Street Journal

CHRIS HAYES (HOST): First, let’s start on the lawsuit filed, which just happened. It’s kind of wild to me he’s suing Murdoch. It’s kind of wild to me Murdoch did not kill this story. What is your reaction?

ANGELO CARUSONE (MEDIA MATTERS PRESIDENT): Well, my first reaction is we are definitely living in the upside down, because somehow I’m in the same boat as Rupert Murdoch. And that is just an example of how wild everything is.

The bigger point, though, and I think it’s to show how wild the lawsuit is, is that, you know, he’s running the same playbook that he’s run against ABC and CBS and hoping that he’ll have a similar effect. But beyond that, it’s very precise because, as you noted, he’s suing Rupert Murdoch personally. But you know who he’s not suing? Lachlan Murdoch, who’s actually the chairperson of News Corp and Fox, who’s actually the decision-maker. Rupert Murdoch has no official role there anymore. He’s an adviser.

So, I thought that was revealing in a lot of ways, because it isn’t just about going after the entity. It’s sort of this expansion spillover, trying to send as much of a message as you possibly can. He’s sort of hitting every potential lever, not just against Murdoch and that empire, but then all the other media properties in the future. It’s also about sending an example.

HAYES:  Yeah. That, to me, is the point here, is that these lawsuits are not lawsuits. They are attempts at intimidation and essentially bribe solicitations. It was true with the lawsuit that was directed at ABC and Disney. It’s — I mean, it was really true that CBS lawsuit, which truly was utterly groundless. And this — I mean, unless, you know, unless it turns out to be fabricated, which I don’t think it is, this seems utterly groundless as well. But that intimidation factor is a key part of what we’re seeing here.

CARUSONE: Yeah, totally. And that has big effects, right? Because it affects the calculus of the decision making that entities do. And I think when we think about the media, we have to think more broad. We can’t just think about newspapers and television and cable and broadcasters. You actually have to consider what social media platforms are going to do as well, because as every day we inch closer to the future, right, that becomes more and more what the media is. The way that front page news editors were really deciding the narrative 20 years ago is the way that social media platforms and rules will dictate the larger narrative. So, that message is being sent to all parts of the storytelling and information ecosystem — the attention engine, as you might think of it. And that’s the important part.

HAYES: Yeah. And it’s particularly true about getting people not to publish more Epstein stories, right? Like, first of all, we’ll get into this, I imagine next week. I’m not even sure, like, we’ve ever had a president sue anyone. I think it’s possible it’s never happened before in American history. We’ll find out. But, like, that is other — it’s this story which he’s obsessed with, which he wanted to kill, and he wants to send a message, don’t do any more Epstein reporting.

CARUSONE: Definitely. And it’s a signal to like, you know, if you’re not Rupert Murdoch — let’s say you’re one of the critical right-wing media figures right now that is sort of out there pushing Trump, you know, needling Trump to do more, to say more, to hold true to his promises. Let’s say you’re mad for whatever reason. You’re going to be really careful with what you say now, because it’s not just that you’re going to get on the wrong side and maybe get iced out, or lose your credential, or don’t get your spot on the plane, or get a nasty phone call from them. It’s actually that he might sue you into oblivion, because Rupert Murdoch will be able to defend himself, so will Fox and News Corp. But, you know, a creator with a million subscribers, it seems like a lot, they wouldn’t be able to sustain something like this. It could be devastating and damaging. And that’s basically it. It’s a way to try to put a cap on this broken sewer pipe.

HAYES: Yeah, I personally don’t — well, we’ll see. We’re in novel territory here. It’s going to be very interesting to follow this case in terms of whether the president can sue people in his private capacity.